Never a band that was dead set on playing by the rules, it’s been interesting to hear Enemy Inside grow and change since their first release in 2018 [Phoenix]. Since then, they’ve moved further and further into their own sound. Venom sees them breaking the mold even further, with songs swinging from influences ranging from metalcore to hip hop to pop to EDM. Truly a melting pot of influences, while keeping it heavy enough for long-time fans to enjoy. We spoke with vocalist Natassja Giulia and lead guitarist Evan Koukoularis about the band’s evolution, the state of the music scene and what they’d like to see changed, a 3d glasses version of Venom, and much more.
Dead Rhetoric: Phoenix came out in 2018, how do you feel the band has grown since then?
Evan Koukoularis: It’s funny if you think sometimes about how it started. It was in a small apartment when we were studying and making a university project together. Now it has turned into a real band, going on tours and putting out albums. It’s nice to take a moment and appreciate that. It’s something that not everyone can do. We are really happy that it turned out that way.
Nastassja Giulia: Also, from the music style, we evolved a lot. Especially with the new record. We didn’t put in so many limits when we were writing, and I think we now have found ourselves.
Dead Rhetoric: Outside of singles and touring, what have you had to do in order to keep the band growing between releases?
Nastassja: I think we tried to always be present. If we didn’t put out an album for a long time, especially due to the pandemic, but we always tried to be present in a digital way when we couldn’t play. There were two years that we couldn’t play. We also had our second album, Seven, in that moment and we had to skip our release. It was a bit frustrating, but we tried to be present and were posting. We would post singles or acoustic versions or something…
Evan: The thing is, just keep on doing stuff. The motivation will go on. Just keep doing what you like and if there are a few things you don’t like or want to change, go ahead and change them. But keep doing it.
Dead Rhetoric: There’s a ton of different influences on display throughout Venom. Do you feel that you have nailed the sound you are looking for?
Evan: Exactly. On this record, we had the ability to express ourselves in exactly the way we wanted to. In the older albums, it was part of us, but we set more limits than on this record. I think so far, it’s the most original album we have put out.
Dead Rhetoric: Is it important to you that the sound stays open? Trying new things and expanding horizons?
Nastassja: For us, yes. I feel that for us, it’s nicer if we play a live show. Not every song sounds the same. They have different energies and different topics and just pulling different vibes. It’s more exciting for the audience, and I think it’s more exciting for us.
Evan: There are a few bands in the metal scene that do have a few songs that are big hits and they try to rewrite the same song over and over again, and they play a setlist live with all of these songs, and when it’s time to hear the hit, it doesn’t have as much of an effect because you have listened to all of the other songs that sound pretty similar. The effect goes away a bit. We aren’t the type of people who want to stick to the same recipe.
Nastassja: We want the album to feel more diversified.
Dead Rhetoric: What are your thoughts on the expansion of the heavy metal sound into a broader spectrum?
Nastassja: I think music nowadays, especially in metal, is more versatile than 10-20 years ago. Now we have the internet and we are able to explore more music than before. But I think that now there is more genre-crossing. Like two days ago, I saw reggae-core on Instagram and I was like, “this is something new!” For me, it’s exciting. I want to hear new stuff. I don’t want to hear the same genre over and over again. It’s exciting to mix. That was what nu metal was the beginning. They just started mixing things and something good came out of it.
Evan: I think that we are finally at a stage that metal doesn’t have this nostalgic ‘80s character anymore. How it used to be 10-15 years ago, and there are still bands now trying to do this, but it’s not as much as it used to be. It’s like, get over it, the ‘80s are gone [laughs].
Nastassja: I also think that people are more accepting if you aren’t ‘true metal,’ the metal police are still there, but it’s getting smaller. I think people aren’t as narrow-minded anymore.
Dead Rhetoric: It’s funny that you mentioned that because I was going to ask about the other side of the spectrum. Do you feel that bands like yours that try to be outside of the box tend to get critiqued more harshly than sticking to the usual playbook?
Nastassja: Definitely, but I think whatever you do, if you are taking risks, you have to deal with it. People might criticize you more, but the more they do that, the more other people will love you. I think you should do whatever you feel is right and whatever you want to do as an artist.
Evan: In the end, you cannot please everyone. Just do whatever expresses yourself and your character more.
Nastassja: I mean, you have to listen to the songs more than the fans do. You should like it.
Dead Rhetoric: At least if someone complains about it, you are eliciting a reaction too…
Nastassja: If it’s worth a comment, then we did something right.
Dead Rhetoric: What would you like to see from the metal scene as we move forward?
Evan: Personally, I would like to see more young people listening to it. Whatever will approach them to join the metal scene is pretty good coming from my side. We have a problem if you visit many European festivals, the young people are missing. I think it’s time that we get them to join the existing crowd. It’s super cool to have the scene, but we need some younger fans.
Nastassja: I also would hope for more acceptance. It’s gotten better, but I would like the metal scene to be more open. I feel it is a scene that people always want to be accepted, but they aren’t really as open. Some people are really narrow-minded within the scene. You don’t see it as much in other genres. Like, you don’t hear anyone saying, “I only listen to soul. I don’t like neo-soul, it’s bullshit.” You see it more in the metal scene.
Evan: Yeah, whoever listens to black metal, they hate, I don’t know, power metal.
Nastassja: I feel it should be more about the music, not if it’s a certain style. We, as a band, are music lovers, and we don’t care if a song has hip hop or metal or whatever. If the music is good, we like it. It’s almost as stupid as if you say that “I only watch action movies, and hate all other movies.”
Evan: It’s why we don’t like to put a label on our music as well. I couldn’t define it myself, the kind of music we are doing. If you like good music, then listen to it. It’s pretty simple [laughs].
Dead Rhetoric: I think both of those points are pretty valid. From a teacher perspective, there’s so many students nowadays that just don’t listen to music at all.
Nastassja: We are also teaching music, so we get that. Sometimes someone will only know a song because of TikTok. Or they only listen to music on TikTok.
Evan: If someone wants to learn something, like a rock or metal band, it’s a band coming from the ‘80s or ‘90s. At the maximum, it’s the early 2000s. It’s very unusual that someone wants to learn a song from 2020. We need more new, young bands, and we also need young bands who are going to inspire the young people out there. Not having the same bands from the same 40-50 years.
Dead Rhetoric: Natassja, how has your experience as a vocal coach impacted your own vocal development and performance?
Nastassja: Right now I’m not teaching as often because the time isn’t there. But when I am teaching, I am learning a lot about myself. Not even regarding my vocal technique, but more as a person. I see many good people struggling with being too hard on themselves. This is something that helped me a lot when I was teaching. I saw all of my students, and I saw mistakes I did myself. That helped me a lot to be more gentle with myself. Of course, when you teach music you are also training your voice. But I would not say that when I teach, it’s my vocal practice. Depending on the student I do other things. When you teach, it does help with your routine.
Dead Rhetoric: Evan, how has producing and being involved with other bands over the years influenced your approach to writing?
Evan: A lot, I think many times a song turned in a way because I wanted to try something out – some new trick or having an idea when recording another band. It happens a lot. But in the end, inspiration comes no matter what you do. I also am a guitar instructor as well, so I can say that I get inspiration from that as well. When we are on tour and have long road trips, there is also a moment when you are driving, that we can get inspiration from. In the end, inspiration comes from your team and whatever you do. It’s also why music is an interpretation of your own life.
Dead Rhetoric: What inspired having a 3d glasses edition of Venom?
Nastassja: I was looking for cool ideas for the cover, and I use Pinterest a lot for that. I think I saw something with the red and blue effect and I thought about 3-d glasses. I thought it would be cool because I never saw it with another band. We built a concept and thought it would be cool to put a riddle in the book that you can only solve with the glasses. That’s the whole idea. We wanted something new and special.
Dead Rhetoric: What’s most rewarding about being in Enemy Inside?
Nastassja: For me, it’s when I am on stage and they are singing to the music. They know our lyrics. It’s the best moment. Or when people write is on Instagram about how our music helped them through a rough time or inspired them. It’s really rewarding.
Evan: I absolutely agree to all of that. I remember being in a country I had never been to in the past, Bulgaria, and I remember people singing our songs. I didn’t expect that. Or when we visited Spain and we didn’t know who was going to come to our concert. We had a full club of people. Those are the little things that encourage you.
Dead Rhetoric: What are your plans for this year, outside of the album release?
Nastassja: In February and March, we will be doing a headline tour in Europe. We are visiting like 8 countries. We have it on our Instagram.
Evan: We just want to tour with the album. Also, a challenge we said to ourselves is to not have that big space between this album and the next one. We want to keep putting out new music, even if we don’t have 12-13 songs ready. Just to be interactive more in real time.