Chicago-based metal band Avernus originated in the early 90s, garnering steady critical acclaim along with faithful underground / cult appeal in many pockets of the states and abroad. Releasing demos, a full-length, and EPs… they finally reappear through their second album Grievances. Signing with M-Theory Audio, the record encapsulates a doom, death, and gothic musical cocktail with emotional magnitude that connects to those who love morose, thoughtful material to channel deeper feelings into a better direction. We spoke to guitarist / vocalist Rick McCoy and guitarist Erik Kikke to bring us up to date on the material for this latest outing, thoughts on the nature-oriented cover art, how the band handles the music industry changes compared to the underground 90s-era, as well as a little insight into future plans.
Dead Rhetoric: Grievances is the second Avernus full-length album. What can you tell us regarding the songwriting and recording sessions for this set of material? How do you see this record sitting in the Avernus discography now that it comes 27 years after your debut album …Of the Fallen from 1997?
Rick McCoy: I would probably start with the way we approached this album. More or less, we have been working on a whole different bunch of music for a lot of years. We always would record jam sessions waiting for other people to show up, while we were tuning up. I think it was a few years ago that Erik and Jimmy sat down, and we started going through this material, restructuring it and all that. Eventually we had rough tracks, he would go over the drums. We didn’t record this all at once in a studio, it was a little bit here, a little bit there. I went in last, throwing down the vocals, the guitars, the synths, stuff like that. It was approached a little bit differently than what we are used to. However, it was a different experience. Part of that is we’ve really learned, just getting older and better at writing, we know how to hold back when need be.
To answer the question about how this matches up with the previous music – I think it’s a great mix of our older stuff like The Sadness demo, and it sounds way different than the …Of the Fallen album, which is more gothic metal for lack of a better term. This is more of a return to our heavier metal roots – Paradise Lost stuff. The Gothic album for all four of us is one of the most life changing albums for us. If anything, this album took a while to get there. It captures where we are right now, not just as musicians but as people. We are more mature, more thoughtful, we didn’t want to lose any emotion in there. What you are hearing are those results.
Erik Kikke: It was a lot to go through. We kept recording, I tried to layer and label things as best as I could. Jimmy did a great job keeping track of all of this. It was funny when Jimmy put together a loose version of what the record could be, here are some of the songs we had, and I said, ‘oh – I forgot about that.’ We just pieced it together. Some of the time away happened due to scheduling issues – we just couldn’t get the engineer together. We took it slow. We recorded “Nemesis” and “Return to Dust” quite a while ago. It was painstakingly slow to make sure that things were right.
Dead Rhetoric: How deep into the well did some of these songs go as far as idea development to final execution? And were you conscientious of the ebbs and flows of the track listing to give the listener proper understanding and processing for these songs, given that it’s slightly over an hour of material to absorb / process?
Kikke: One thing we did do, when you mentioned diving deep down into the well. There was one song in particular “Utter Euphoria” which Jimmy had played, and it was pretty well fleshed out. The basic guitar tracks were there, and we were never fearful of trying something new. It started like a little guitar intro, Jimmy fleshed it out, and McCoy took it over the finish line with his vocals and guitar synth. When I heard it, I told Jimmy I don’t even hear the guitar part that I wrote. It was a little bit of a stretch, but it’s arguably my favorite track because it is so different. You hear the Avernus personalities inside of it, but I feel we had dug in that pretty deep. Jimmy fleshed out some of the instrumentals that are on the record, to tie everything in. We have a loose handful of song ideas that we put into the track listing, but then Jimmy had all the ebbs and flows right where they were supposed to be.
I remember when I heard it, but I felt that the order was just right – and I told Jimmy and Rick that. Jimmy did strategically do that. It picks up when it’s supposed to, it comes down when it’s supposed to. That was important too, you want to try make an album that’s an hour long as interesting as you can, make sure those parts hit you like they are supposed to. We did it as if we were listening to a record, how would you want the track listing? It sounds silly to say it that way.
McCoy: I actually agree with you. Track listing is important. I don’t know about music these days, society has changed a lot, people are focused on one song at a time. I remember growing up and listening to music in my room, albums and cassettes, listening from start to finish as if a big story was being told. One of my favorite albums of all-time is Operation: Mindcrime by Queensrÿche. To this day, I was in high school when that came out and it’s still one of the best concept albums, and one of my favorite personal albums. I listened to that over and over, Pink Floyd- The Wall. There weren’t any gaps between the songs, it just kept going. That was the idea we’ve been wanting to do for a long time, an album of just music. We’ve been trying to do a concept album, but it’s just hard to come up with good ideas (laughs).
If anything, it did piggyback on what Erik said. Everything fell into place. We are still taken aback by the reaction so far to this album. We are so grateful. We weren’t really expecting this level of attention. We went into this album more or less to just do this for ourselves. If we only got this one last chance, let’s just write these songs and be happy that we were able to get this out. We are getting busier than ever, which is good, as I like being busy.
Dead Rhetoric: You are a part of the M-Theory Audio roster. Tell us how it feels to be aligned again with Marco Barbieri – who has been a part of the Avernus history since the mid 90’s through your Metal Massacre XII appearance when he worked at Metal Blade?
McCoy: Oh yeah. I am so excited. I love working with Marco. We never officially worked with him outside of the Metal Massacre XII appearance as he was a part of that. It’s nice to work with somebody that gets us and understands us. We are not afraid to try new things – if you listen to …Of the Fallen and then listen to Grievances, it does sound like two different bands. Marco has always been there, he’s always given us solid advice, honesty at times when we didn’t want to hear it as we were young and stubborn, and we thought we knew everything. Erik had sent him a copy of the album, and he was the only person who right off the bat said yeah, let’s work together. We didn’t talk to anybody else – we didn’t want to. I’m proud to be part of M-Theory.
Kikke: It was a dream come true. We didn’t get a chance to work with Marco in a bigger capacity outside of the Metal Massacre appearance. That worked out great, we are humbled to be on that. Marco has worked with so many incredible bands, and he’s a real presence in the world of music. I remember the day when I sent him the record, I didn’t know what was going to happen. In the least bit, he’s supported us all these years, and he and I kept in touch loosely on Facebook. I had a question for him completely off topic that had nothing to do with (Avernus). He said he wanted to work us; the record sounds great. Here’s a contract, I want you to take a look at it. Is this real, am I dreaming? It’s good to know that we’ve known him for so long.
Dead Rhetoric: How did the cover art piece develop for Grievances? Is there a specific theme you wanted to get across between animals and nature through this work?
Kikke: This is a tough one. Jimmy found that piece. We were throwing stuff around here and there, found a couple of artists that had custom made stuff they could do for you and while I was looking at some examples, admittedly it’s really hard to find the piece you are looking for unless you see it. I am not an artist. We found this piece, and I remember this feeling of grim depression, the piece itself speaks volumes. There is so much going on in that piece. These ravens that are about to tear apart this poor mother’s dead calf, there’s a lot to be said about the world and how barbaric it can be. With the winter ground it’s set upon, the pale skies in the air, I saw it and it just hit me right in the chest. We looked at it and we thought it just grabs you. There is something different about the animals being the focal point on that cover, mother nature and the cycle of life. It doesn’t always make you feel good, but it’s a part of life. It spoke volumes.
McCoy: It captures… we don’t have an intended theme on the record, but a lot of lyrics speak to how we all are getting a little older. The climate is not as sunny as it was before, so this reflects that. We’ve also too, except for the first demo, we’ve gone for nature-based things for the cover art. Erik sent me this – and I thought it was perfect. Nature in life, can be cruel. Life has this flipside that it can be amazing, and also very cruel. We just wanted to get around that.
Dead Rhetoric: Where do you see the major differences in the evolution of the music industry from when the band initially was getting a foothold in the scene during the 1990s versus the way music is consumed, promoted, and delivered today?
McCoy: Oh wow. I think Erik and I were talking about this the other day. When I started out it was all about tape trading. I can’t tell you how many times I would be up all night, taping demos, writing handwritten letters, making flyers, putting in a big pile of boxes and spend tons of money in postage. Wait two or three weeks to get a response. Now you get this instant email, and within a couple of minutes we are going over things. Part of it is also, when we were starting out there weren’t as many bands in the early 90s. Since that time, more and more bands have come out thanks to social media.
One thing that has remained constant is we have always done what we wanted to do. We used to play in a lot of club shows when we were starting out. We were the black sheep, having ten plus minute songs makes it hard as attention spans are shorter. What we have found is the people that are really into this style of music, are passionate enough about it to get through your album, listening to it again versus most people hear the first couple of seconds of a song and say, ‘nope – move it along’. Change the channel, change the song. That’s the way I am looking at it.
Kikke: There are perks to technology where I can send Rick a part and if it’s useable quicker. The only little complaint is there used to be some little magic of having to write something and remember it if you didn’t record it. Overall, the part of sending music files now is so much easier. The music industry as a whole, it’s different and strange. We are trying our best to navigate it. I remember there was a time where it felt like there were less bands out there. Now I can have a conversation with someone from Brazil and start sending songs instantaneously on the spot, we record stuff on our computers.
Dead Rhetoric: What have you changed your mind about the most in the last few years? Why have you changed your mind about that particular area?
Kikke: That’s a good question. I want to make sure I answer this honestly. It might seem a little general, but I did bring some old habits in from back in the day. I wanted to get these ideas fleshed out there and out quickly – and for me this happens in all areas of my life. I get impatient, and I want to cross things off my list. I now stop, pause, do things deliberately and with more meaning. It may be the safe, old man answer – but I don’t drive these guys as crazy. Life related, home life, my wife has even said that I need to slow down, as I try to get everything done all at once. Taking my time, looking around.
McCoy: Erik was barely 15, if that, when he joined the band. I was the only one with a car, so it took me two to three hours to pick up everyone to make it to practice. We all struggled with being young, naïve, too ideal, bringing our own bad behaviors in. Getting a little older, you learn to let go of stuff that you can’t do anything about. I appreciate that. Music-wise, after a while, I was anti-clean vocals. I’m more open to now if I write something, maybe it would sound better with some clean vocals. To make it that much better – but I would find someone else to do it live. Try to be more open, I used to be much more stubborn. I don’t want to cheapen our sound. We’ve gotten so much smarter as far as compositions, we can write a lot quicker. We don’t plod and trod as much as we used to, going over and over the same section. It goes back to the theme of the album.
Dead Rhetoric: What’s on the agenda for things related to Avernus over the next year or two? Has work already begun behind the scenes on the next recording – and if so, what can the followers expect that may be similar – or differ – from Grievances?
McCoy: We have some shows coming up – a three-day festival called Heavy Chicago on November 1st. A lot of bands – Cynic, Bongripper, Jasta, Earthburner, a lot of bigger bands. We may have some more shows in the next months. We will continue to write – maybe look at playing festivals here and in Europe. We are charged up to keep writing. Erik and I are talking about the new songs, investing in new things. I don’t think we will be slowing down anytime soon.
Kikke: We will rehearse for these shows coming up. We will look at getting some festivals next year. In the meantime, we will continue to write, coming up with more ideas again. We will do us. Hopefully have the right amount of songs at some point, and hopefully writing another full-length. Merch coming up soon. The next twelve months, that’s what we’ve got.