After their last album, Damnum, vocalist Riley McShane left the band, and some were surprised to hear that former vocalist Ezra Haynes was reunited with the act. After some touring, he was officially reintegrated into the band and now we sit on the precipice of their newest album, The Ossuary Lens. We spoke with Ezra about the ins and outs of his return, his perspective on how the band has changed through the years during his time outside of it, the importance of passion and emotion, and lots of details about their forthcoming effort.
Dead Rhetoric: Having left the band and then coming back to it, what was that feeling like?
Ezra Haynes: A sight for sore eyes. It was a lot more clear. I was able to retain a lot more information. I was able to be passionate about it again, which was really nice. Towards the end, before I left, it wasn’t really there. I was dealing with a lot of substance abuse-type shit and going forward into this next phase of Allegaeon. It was nice to be able to soak it in and be clear headed. To be able to forge cool relationships and remember those relationships, because that was a big part of the past…not being able to remember a whole lot. When you are touring the same places you start meeting people. People are people, so they are only going to give you so many chances before they are pissed at you for not remembering who they are. But as time progressed, it just became naturally easier after I got back in the saddle.
Dead Rhetoric: Given the vocalist change, which tends to be a sticking point for some people, do you think coming back into the band helped to soften the blow considering people were upset when the first split happened?
Haynes: I would hope so, and I mean, from what I saw it…from my vision, it seems all very positive. It seems like with new singers, because it’s a voice, it dilutes the band as they do it each time, until something hits. For instance, Lorna Shore. I’m pretty sure that they have gone through tons of vocalists, then [Will Ramos] comes in and they just blow up. I think it can be hit and miss a lot, but with me getting back into the group, it was easier for the fans to handle since I am a familiar voice with three albums under my belt. It was probably nice to hear that, rather than somebody else who was a new face to get familiar with. People don’t really take to change all that well.
Dead Rhetoric: From your perspective, how does the band sound now compared to when you left it?
Haynes: Allegaeon has always been super complex. Everyone thrives on it. It’s a shredding contest, and I think what commonly is said, is an evolution. I would have to say that it’s true. I’m noticing from then until now, it’s a big contrast. I use this a lot, but I think it fits so well: you look in the mirror every day and you don’t see that change. If you look in a mirror three years from now you are going to be like, “holy shit, I have aged!” So I have that unique perspective on this, since I was in it for almost a decade and when I was removed, I was completely removed! I did not listen to a single metal song. There was not a single metal song in my life. I was on a totally different warpath. To come back to it and not only see how everything has changed, not only touring-wise, writing-wise…now everyone has routine. Everyone is used to their roles and we have all grown accepting of what we have and how to do this thing that is Allegaeon.
Really, I think the big difference I see is not to say that it was one-dimensional before, it was more ‘simple,’ not to say the technicality wasn’t there, because if you listen to the recordings they were more straight-forward. Now if you listen to Damnum or if you listen to The Ossuary Lens, then you have this depth that is different. It’s because people have become so accustomed to their role and they are able to apply brain power towards other things, to make it feel like a nice overall project. There’s a depth and recurring themes and just a lot of thought. Before maybe we were just excited to just get that shit out. Now we put in more time and effort.
Dead Rhetoric: You said you weren’t listening to metal for a long time. When you went through that period, what made you say, “Hmmm maybe I should go back to metal?”
Haynes: The last time I really actively listened to metal was when The Black Dahlia Murder was popping off, The Red Chord, All Shall Perish, Planetary Duality by The Faceless. So it’s been a handful of years. I have always, in my heart, listened to pop or really aggressive rap. I’m a hook-driven person. I need a hook, I need certain cadences, certain types of emotion involved. More popular music tends to nail that, that’s why it’s popular. To me, music translates via emotion, so I have to have some kind of emotional investment for the music to really work for me. I always kind of say that my first two albums were Guns n Roses Appetite for Destruction and Ace of Base The Sign. It still bakes through to this day.
To answer your question specifically, metal might be my calling. It’s more the passion thing. If we only live once, or a thousand times, as far as we know we are just walking this planet the one time that we can physically experience. To me, that time should be used on something you are passionate about, regardless of income or whatever. If you connect with it and it makes you happy and prosper, then you should do that. For me, it’s my performance. The interesting thing, when I see myself, I don’t see myself performing any kind of rap or pop. What I do connect with is that angst. Being able to do that, and there are these different songs with different themes, so I can almost transport to a different individual for each song, I can just go into the zone – it’s not even fucking me!
When I’m onstage, it’s kind of a different thing. That I really link with, I really get off on seeing crowd participation, so I try to incorporate that into the sets. I like seeing people react to something I created. So getting this potential at the time, to get back into the saddle for Allegaeon, it reignited that. The music that I listen to, I love. I do nod towards metal because I do it and I do pay attention, so don’t get it twisted [laughs]. I know what’s going on out there. But it’s more of a passion for the creative process and the entertainment. I like to rock the fuck out and headbang with no hair. It’s what I do!
Dead Rhetoric: One might argue that the passion comes out a bit more with a live metal show, than a heavily produced pop show where vocals are being lip-synced and that sort of thing.
Haynes: I’m huge for large productions! If you give me pyro or lasers, I’m in! That big movie vibe! The theatrical elements. But maybe it’s a part of my upbringing. My first show was The Vandals. A punk show, and it was very ‘knock ‘em down and pick ‘em back up and crowd surf.’ I was crowd surfing very young, bumming cigarettes as a degenerate. But that was my gateway more into the metal shows. That same mentality carried over, if someone falls pick them up and everyone is very accepting and loves each other. I would probably attribute that to why I am also so gravitated to that performance aspect in metal. It’s still that environment, I really dig that environment.
Dead Rhetoric: What makes The Ossuary Lens stand out to you as the latest album, personally, other than it being the first one back for you in quite some time?
Haynes: Probably just that, it is personal. Every album I have done with Allegaeon is personal. A lot of the topics are science-related at least in some fashion. A lot of the older material, it was harder for me to fully lock in emotionally with. Since it’s about those types of topics. You can’t really be said about evolution [laughs]. I guess you could if you just thought about it…so picking these types of topics, to a lot of listeners it’s more sterile since they are more of a textbook thing. For me to gain an emotional investment in, [I had] to stretch it to something I felt. With The Ossuary Lens, I think that is where it ended. Now it’s more interpersonal. I was able to lock in some of the stuff I have gone through in the last decade or just other experiences in life. Being able to touch on those topics made it a lot easier and more fun, since I was more emotionally invested. I had that competition really for myself. I realize now that I’m talking about it out loud, I wanted to outdo myself and I feel like I did. Lyrically, the more interpersonal connection with respect to the older ties. We’ve got “Dark Matter Dynamics,” “Chaos Theory,” and there’s a bunch of science shit in there too, but there’s an emotional investment.
Also the gaining of routines, I feel like we sonically have achieved a greater depth than we have achieved before. What I mean by that is riffs and things that can tug on your heartstrings more than what we have done before. If there is one thing I’m a big fan of in music, it’s tugging on heartstrings.
Dead Rhetoric: That’s interesting, and something I wanted to touch on actually. With the last album, Damnum, it moved away from some of the heavy science aspects of the lyrics. Did you use that as an opening to make it more emotional? You mentioned before how important emotion is to you, personally. That you wanted something you could feel.
Haynes: I’m so stoked you even said that. I thought that was my secret [laughs]. That’s absolutely it! That’s something I absolutely have to give kudos to Riley [McShane] for, bringing the emotional element into Allegaeon, which is something I really always wanted but it never called for it. The timing couldn’t have been more perfect with where I am at now. I have 8 years of sobriety under my belt, tons of learning and life experience. I get back into the group, and what I am following up is Damnum, which in my opinion is their most elite work ever. Of course, it’s interpersonal, which is so fucking cool.
So I was like, “Okay, so you are saying I should touch upon those subjects.” So honestly, if you think about Allegaeon as a product, it’s kind of a cool story. There’s a severe situation that happens, of course the group is still able to maintain a good trajectory, then for me to step out and get my shit together and dust my shoulders off and hop back on the saddle and give it my all…I feel like it’s a great story. That’s why I consciously made the decision to be so open about it. I think it will connect with a lot of people. Overall I think it was a really good decision.
Dead Rhetoric: You did throw down some clean vocals on a few tracks, now that I have heard the whole thing. Is that something you wanted to do to spread your wings, so to speak? Looking at what had been done back when you were out of the band…
Haynes: So, again we are following up Damnum [laughs]! There’s that. So here is what I would say to all of that. First and foremost, Allegaeon is a death metal band. When the decision was there to do the clean thing, I really chose the death metal outlet because that is my thing. That’s what I do. Do I have mad respect for singing? Yes I do. Do I think we need a ton? No. Keep it kind of out. I am down with it here and there. Sometimes the song itself really calls for it. Going into writing this album, it was something that was in my mind, if the opportunity presents itself, then we will spread our wings there. I was listening to all the demos and at the time, “Driftwood” was called “Banana Republic,” because when BooBoo [Brandon Michael – bass] writes demos he names them after stores in the mall [laughs]. This one is called “Abercrombie and Fitch” this one is “Hot Topic” over here. So this one was “Banana Republic.” I gave it an honest listen and there was a lead in the chorus that made my heart cry. Naturally as I was writing, I wanted to follow that lead in the chorus, and we got to the writing retreat, which is where we tear apart everything. It was decided to make it the single, but it was also like, I almost couldn’t write anything else because that lead was so fire! I had to do it, so I ended up stealing it. To really get that lead, it needed to be sung. It was a really interesting experience, because it was a growth period, but it was nice to get it out of my system.
The other singing that happens on the album, and mind you, the entire album isn’t full of singing. But there are couple songs on it. It’s me on “Driftwood,” but Mike [Stancel], that’s something we really wanted to lean in on. That was the thing. Over COVID, he taught himself how to sing. He has his other project, Harboured, and he’s just so well-versed. Why restrain someone like that? Let them fly and do what they excel at and we all win. So he took over a nice chorus in “Wake Circling Above,” and it came out so good. I’m really glad we leaned in on some of Mike’s singing as well. He murders them!
Dead Rhetoric: Elements of the Infinite turned 10 last year. What do you remember about putting that album together that has stuck with you, particularly with you coming full circle to vocals?
Haynes: The thing is, I don’t remember a lot from that span of time. It’s from when I was getting heavier and heavier into it. It was a year later that things really hit the ceiling, or whatever you’d like to say. Mostly, it’s recording the video for “Threshold.” It was fun and on the beach. The whole thing cost us like $30 because of Taco Bell for food. We recorded it on cell phones and a shitty camera. We leaned in on making the best out of something that was garbage. It was like, “Ok, I’m going to toss this footage into Final Cut and just try to learn the program.” So that’s all I did and that’s why it’s so chaotic and dumb. I love it. I can’t not have a handful of conversations about those videos.
That was really when Stancel and [Brandon] Park got involved so it was like a new phase of Allegaeon, so it was kind of a 2.0 in that sense. A lot of younger input, Stancel was only 19 at the time, he was a child. I don’t know, I do recognize it was the most monumental thing that I was a part of so good vibes all around, but I had some learning and growth to take on there.
Dead Rhetoric: You mentioned the videos, and I was going to mention “Iridescent” which was released last year in the same silly vibes. Do you find that your more humorous videos tend to stick with people?
Haynes: Yeah [laughs], so in death metal you want to be a badass. Black everything. I realized that I still, going out on the road, I’m still talking about crabs. I have realized that as time progresses, I will start talking about hot dogs. So when we do those things, they are memorable, but when I sit down and analyze Allegaeon shit and the visuals, to be honest, I really like the evil, brutal elements. I think the other videos are fun and we will continue to do them because that’s what we are now, but they are also very easy for us to do. We are naturally dipshits. The next video is not as serious. It’s more on the funny side. They tend to be more memorable because it’s natural to is.
Dead Rhetoric: Going along with the ‘melotech’ description, which I believed you were quoted with on the promo, do you view Allegaeon as a stepping stone for people to get into more tech bands? I have always found Allegaeon to have that tech sound but more memorable than a lot of the super heavy stuff, personally.
Haynes: I never thought of that. I have my stepping bands too. It’s interesting that you say that. We are 17-18 years old and we have quite the discography already, I guess so. I think the reason why it’s memorable is because we do apply more of a traditional structure to our writing even though it’s super techy and you can get lost in that. It’s still structured, and because of what I listen to, probably, that’s going to be my biggest influence. I do purposely write for attention. I write to be hooky. When I am trying to drive home a chorus, I don’t fuck with the whole prog shit. The boys do, and they can do that with their instruments, but as far as vocally, I want something that is repeating. I want something that hits hard and has good contents. I think that’s the way I write.
I listen to a song and I bop my head and I start spitting out fake words and making shit up on the fly. Then I will throw a cool word in there, and it’s about finding a cadence I really like that makes me bop my head. In “Driftwood,” during the bridge after the second chorus, that is the most weird, crazy proggy shit going on and to me, I’m almost keeping this four on the floor, but not really, but this driving force that’s going to continue it. I think it’s probably because I specifically, lyrically write to be memorable.
Dead Rhetoric: I think that’s something that, to be totally honest, I think a lot of bands could learn from. There’s certainly a crowd that will follow the techy stuff forever off the cliff, but I have found that as I get older I just don’t have time for the chaos.
Haynes: Exactly, that’s what is really working in our favor. A lot of bands write riff after riff after riff after riff after riff. We are like, riff riff chorus riff pre-chorus riff bridge…not to take away from other groups, but we don’t lean too hard on being too crazy.
Dead Rhetoric: You have the tour coming up soon, but what’s going on for the rest of 2025 for Allegaeon?
Haynes: We will have a couple more video releases leading up to the tour. The tour with Warbringer this spring is going to be amazing. We have laser focus on Europe for this fall. Also, really nodding towards some markets that we haven’t really touched. Japan is on our radar, Mexico is on our radar. I’m hoping we can hook up to Finland when we go to Europe. South America, we want to hit these markets that don’t have the biggest metal presence or don’t have as much opportunity. Looking at our analytics, it’s kind of wild!
A lot of our listeners are not from the US. It kind of makes sense with our techy jazz. But it’s in countries that you wouldn’t think. Like why are we popular in Egypt? We want to focus on broadening our market on a physical standpoint, other than just audio. I think the next two years are going to be busy. We made some internal changes and we are now self-managed, and made some other structural changes, which I think is all going to work in our favor. I don’t know, I think if history continues to serve us right, we should be hitting some bigger opportunities soon. I’m hoping, and fingers crossed there.
Dead Rhetoric: It’s nice that you took the time to look at those analytics. The running gag of ‘the world tour’ as hitting America, Europe, and maybe parts of Japan/Asia.
Haynes: There’s a lot of markets. But you can’t expect a band that is based on science to not have any idea or strategy in motion. However we can develop that strategy and set ourselves apart from other groups, I think that is the key to longevity here. We already have so much music and have been around for a while, we aren’t a new thing anymore but it’s how you can always breathe life into it. So that’s the main focus for this album cycle.
Photo credit: Stephanie Cabral