Modern metal encompasses a wonderful fusion of aspects that pull from outside sources to create a wide array of sounds that can capture people. Italian quintet Never Obey Again may seem like a newcomer on this scene, but their years of experience in other bands / projects pays huge dividends to their appeal. Their latest album Trust contains so much focused interplay with aspects of metalcore, EDM, pop, and groove metal whirled together in such a way that these songs connect instantly – deeply embedding themselves into your soul. We reached out to guitarist Alessandro Tuvo to find out about his personal musical upbringing, the openness of tools that the band incorporates into their songwriting / output, the DIY video / social media content philosophy, favorite albums, plus deep thoughts about the Italian metal scene versus Europe / America in terms of support and what the future will look like for the group.
Dead Rhetoric: What can you tell us about your earliest musical memories from childhood? At what point did you start discovering heavier forms of music, and eventually the desire to perform in your own bands?
Alessandro Tuvo: Cool, that’s a good one to start things off. I’ve been playing music for as long as I can remember. I grew up in a music family. My father was a guitar player, I started off playing drums, I ended up taking up the piano, and the guitars when I was 17. Around high school something changed – I was in a band doing Rage Against the Machine covers, which was when I heard the distorted guitars, and I went on that path. I can play acoustic and jazz stuff too, but when I hit the distortion pedal, I am very happy! (laughs).
Dead Rhetoric: Did you have any formal training at this point, or are you totally self-taught?
Tuvo: I was referring to my dad as my first teacher, although he never really pushed me. Growing up in a family where you have guitars around the house, there is a subtle impact of that aspect to make you get involved with it. I started jamming with my father, and then I learned I had to switch to something more professional. Up until 18 years of age, you have regular school and then you can choose to go to college or to go through another path. I went to the music academy, and after getting my degree there I have been teaching for a while.
Dead Rhetoric: Trust is the second album for Never Obey Again. How did the songwriting and recording sessions go for this set of material – and where do you see the biggest differences between this record and last year’s The End of an Era debut?
Tuvo: It’s a question that opens different doors. Starting off, we never do anything – the name of the band itself described the thought process behind this thing. Let’s do this the way we want to do this – we are eager to achieve and climb the ladder and do things like we are able to sustain this activity as a full-time job. The American dream, right? Besides the drive, the passion, the high that we have, we just try to do whatever comes up in our minds. From the creative perspective, things have been going very smoothly. Differences from the first album – surely the new one sounds more mature to me. At least to my ears, but I’m too biased to say because I am so close to the material. It was very smooth – myself and Alex the other guitarist is in charge of the production, the songwriting – we were very lucky that he is definitely better at writing the music, and I am better at handling the lyrics, the vocal melodies. We do compliment each other very well.
The main difference in the first album is Alex joined the band while we were recording the album. He could only support things on the arrangements and the production part. This album it’s a merging of all our skills that comes together in the same album. There is more influence on each other to get to the final result.
Dead Rhetoric: Carolina chose to inject some harsh vocals this time around. Were there any fears going into this different aspect of her already impressive clean/melodic range – how much more planning and effort went into these spots?
Tuvo: Carolina, she’s a lead singer to my ears. She wants to accomplish this new thing under her cap with the screaming thing because we listen to a lot of metalcore. Most of the oldest metalheads hate this type of sound, but I just don’t care. We love Spiritbox, Bring Me The Horizon, even if you go back to Pantera, we love this type of music. We thought many times about implementing harsh vocals just to get to a level where we have this tool in the box. It doesn’t matter if we are going to use it or not, we just know that we have all the tools to go wherever the creativity tells us to go. That to me is the beauty of it. Some songs you will hear we are overly using this, some other times it’s not even present. It’s just a tool that we can stick in if we want to. It felt like a limitation to not be using it. Sometimes even in the songwriting, we think it would be great to go into this thing – to have a harsh vocal to support it. The main point is Carolina, she has a lot of expectations towards herself. Since the clean vocals are up here, it wouldn’t be fair to have harsh vocals not at that same level. So, we waited until she could get them up to that same quality as the clean vocals, now she has it and that’s why we added it to this album. Once she mastered this, then she could use it.
Dead Rhetoric: Where did you want to come across with the lyrical content for this record? Did you use your own personal experiences, or observations based on things going on within the human experience?
Tuvo: I’m very emotional as a human being. I’ve been through a lot like other people in the world. I don’t really care about the type of music that you dress up your concept with or dress up your lyrics with. I don’t care if it’s jazz metal or whatever. It’s very important though to bring some emotion with your content, and it’s nice when it resonates with other people. Of course, with some wisdom, as we are not younger anymore. We may look younger, but we are in our mid-30’s, so we have some experience on our shoulders, it’s easier to write something more meaningful than just writing about the well-known topics of love, war, hate. In metal, you have to sometimes throw other words in there. At the end, it’s difficult to match the vocal melody with the lyrics. In certain songs, I started writing off the lyrics before the melodies came to me. If it continues on this path, it would be very nice.
I tend to write about personal experiences, ups and downs. Rage, fear, loneliness, a bit of anxiety and depression here and there. It’s very difficult to find somebody in society that hasn’t experienced some or all of these things. Overcoming it, struggling with it, it’s always good to take inspiration from and write about it.
Dead Rhetoric: The style of the group incorporates modern metal with electronic elements as well as some pop / rock sensibilities. What are the ideal components you want to present in each Never Obey Again song?
Tuvo: The ideal components. I don’t really know. To be honest, this is a tough question. We just want to leave all the doors open, at the end of the day. For sure, we are not going to make country pop records. The moment we try to put ourselves in a little niche, I understand it’s way easier because the more vertical the niche, it’s easier to get leverage, get people to come to your shows, the big shark so to speak in a small aquarium. The more you stay generic, the more you have the jellyfish in the big ocean. You can sting, but you are still under attack constantly. You don’t have bones (laughs). We are at the moment jellyfish in the ocean, so it’s hard for me to fully answer this question. We want to stick to the name of the band – Never Obey Again.
Dead Rhetoric: Which makes sense… you are open to different influences as long as it stands authentic and organic for what the band wants to achieve, correct?
Tuvo: Yes. I love this type of philosophy, because at the end of the day, if you think about it – we are influenced by music. We do listen to music daily, not just music but our surroundings, nature, the heavens, the belongings. Anything can influence you. If you think about successful bands, I don’t want to be the one who writes music trying to look like somebody else. I know it sounds pretentious or cocky, but in the future, I want to be in the other category where people take inspiration from (us). Because I created something different. Maybe I won’t achieve that, but I’m fine with failing rather than trying to look like somebody else. All the cool bands are cool because they are unique.
Dead Rhetoric: The band also is very involved in the video content as far directing, filming and production. What can you tell us about this process – do you enjoy exploring the visual medium with your songs, and how do you feel its impacted your following on a global scale?
Tuvo: I am the one in charge for the video clips. We just finished shooting the latest video for the song “Trust”, the title track. To be fair, 100% it started off with a money issue. When you start off a band, people don’t really understand the process behind things. It’s nice to see some cool social media stuff, and if the band releases music videos, it’s cool. We recorded the very first video clip with an amazing professional, for “The Storm”, it cost us $3,000-$4,000. If we wanted to be consistent, that’s totally impossible to keep up with in terms of costs, especially if you want to release four to five video clips per year, per album. Not going to work. I looked on the internet for the best camera for the best price, got a couple of good lights and a lot of sleepless nights watching tutorials on YouTube. Alex, from now on, he will care about the audio components, I’ll care about the video components, and we will keep things DIY.
It’s cool, because when you are tight on the budget, you have to get your head working more. If you don’t overthink, this is where the good ideas come from. Some of the greatest video clips – one video I use as a reference is “Bittersweet Symphony” by The Verve. There is just a guy walking towards the camera for the entire video. How much can that cost? Nothing, especially if you have a good camera. Probably less than our first video clip. When you have a low budget, you get your head rolling, you get creative. It’s stressful and draining I’m not going to lie – but it’s fulfilling because we have full control of it. We are on schedule; we can do it when we want. We have a lot of friends that lend us their houses, a cool sofa, some lights. We take inspiration, keeping in mind that we have to make things realistically achievable. I cannot wait until I can delegate this, I have to be honest.
Dead Rhetoric: You’ve been working on some interesting behind the scenes content on YouTube for the band’s upcoming European tour. Discuss the challenges the band faces in trying to make more of a proper footprint in the scene through normal social media platforms – how are you hoping to stand out next to the sea of other artists?
Tuvo: Yes, that’s a big one. It’s a big headache we have daily. There is so much noise around to be able to focus on what’s important. If you don’t take part in the noise, then you are on the outside. The trends and stuff, I don’t know. The best answer, which I try to tell myself, within the noise is a rat race. We have to stay through, be consistent, and have patience. At the end of the day people have to understand that when you try to chase trends, you may end up having something go viral, but at the end of the day it doesn’t make much of a difference. When is the last time you saw a good meme that made you laugh, but did you end up following the page of the person who did it? Did you find any meaningful content about a band that would get you to the point of becoming a fan of the band? Probably not – the essence that brought you in doesn’t represent the band that put out this type of thing.
Maybe it’s better to have smaller numbers that grow very slowly. We really want it now, and we want it all – to mention Queen! (laughs). Once you get into this mindset, you need to be consistent without chasing the numbers. As long as you can see your feed, and the things that you post represent you and make you proud of what you are posting, forget about numbers. Stay authentic, things will work out in years. Like a diet, don’t focus on losing on 100 pounds in like three weeks. Think long-term. If you enjoy doing content, it’s better. I like going around recording stuff, and if I have a spare hour, I edit it. I put it out there for entertainment or community building.
Dead Rhetoric: I definitely enjoyed the extra content. The rehearsal videos reveal some of the choices you make in preparing for the tour – and also showcase your individual personalities…
Tuvo: I love it! Thanks a lot for mentioning. If I wasn’t on the other side of the barricade, I do enjoy when bands go a little in depth. All the glittery, shiny things are great, but YouTube is great for longer form content against the Tik Tok, shorter formats. It’s very nice when you can get to know the personalities within the band. Our bass player (Cristiano) – he’s such a funny character and I love to showcase him to the other people. Or even Alex that can be nerdy and grumpy but he’s a good artist. Carolina is always complaining about something, it’s always a bit of a comedy show in our band. It’s a good family vibe that I want to share with the rest of the world.
Dead Rhetoric: What are three albums that are most important to you to help shape your tastes and outlook on music – they can be heavy or not in choices? And what’s the best concert memory you have, purely attending a show as a member of the audience – plus what made that show so special to you?
Tuvo: Don’t do that to me, man! (laughs). So, albums. As a youngster – Hybrid Theory by Linkin Park. As far as songwriting, that album was great. I want to paint it to that part of my life. Thinking about genius when it comes to blending styles, production values, and braveness, I would say – Bring Me the Horizon did a super cool album in Sempiternal. I remember that was one of the very first times you had so many different influences from metal and other stuff, blending stuff that could be the heaviest (thing) in the pop scene, but not the sloppiest in the metal scene. And then – I do have like a massive influence in acoustic folk singer / songwriters. I’ll sum it up, John Mayer. He did a live concert in the Nokia Theater in Los Angeles. I saw it thousands of times, it’s such a great concert.
Regarding the live shows that I have attended. I have so many good bands – some of the bands I had the good luck to open for them when I was playing in another project. First time I heard Parkway Drive – I couldn’t believe the wall of sound that was coming towards me. I am a fan of the band – I am a huge fan of the story of the band. I love the vibe of the band, even if I don’t listen to the band’s music all the time. They are so real, authentic, it’s just – boom. I have played with them on a couple of shows, and they are amazing.
Dead Rhetoric: What would be surprising for people to learn about the members of Never Obey Again as people away from what they hear in the music and when they get the chance to see you perform live?
Tuvo: I hope that people will have the same interest in knowing us as people. As a band, I think of this like a big party. It doesn’t matter if you get in because you like the band, the music, the food. If something makes you feel good, the environment, the color of the walls, whatever – it’s great. I want to see it like this.
Dead Rhetoric: How do you view the Italian metal scene? Do you look at bands like Lacuna Coil and Rhapsody (Of Fire) as inspiration to break through on an international basis?
Tuvo: It’s a tricky topic. I’ll tell you this. Rhapsody (Of Fire) – amazing band. Lacuna Coil – amazing band. We do know some members of each of those bands. The hate, jealousy or whatever in Italy – it’s a bit fucked. I don’t know how to put it in different words. Italy – it’s a short-tempered country. It’s a passionate country. With passion, it brings a lot of down sides. A lot of anger, a lot of competitiveness. Most of society lives in this average championship mentality. Everything below deserves support. When you get over the top, you deserve to be made fun of. In this middle thing, you feel like everything is a threat. These people – those two bands you mentioned, we often get compared to them. We wish we had 1/10th of what they’ve achieved, and I wish them all the luck. On the other hand, I see some other people hated by the local scene, they have built barriers to keep them in some safe space. Even when you try to engage with those bands, they seem skeptical, even if we know many members of the band. When they are alone, you can hang out – but when they are together, you can’t. This is the wrong side of the Italian scene.
There is so much genuine support in other countries. We are doing a small tour, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany – it’s going to be like five- or six-day tour. We are getting paid for every gig we do, be it a door deal or a flat fee. We are getting back to the tour with money in our pockets, which is very rare. But in Italy, we are doing a release party. I texted, emailed, phoned every single venue within 150 kilometers of my house. No one accepted to have us do our release show (there). We took all the money we had and rented a club. It’s expensive, we have a chip on our shoulders, and we hopefully will get the money back we have invested. Some fans are here, we have a fanbase, we hope to get 150-200 people to our venue in Italy. Meanwhile we travel to other parts of Europe, get packed venues and will get paid.
Dead Rhetoric: What’s on the agenda for the band over the next twelve months? Are there any other side projects or bands with these members that we should also investigate and look into?
Tuvo: We are all professional musicians doing this as a full-time job. We do other projects that we try to keep as separate as possible, they are all cover bands or professional musicians assembled for specific things. Luckily, in the previous years, we did everything to get the ball rolling to make more income. We can stay focused on Never Obey Again at the moment. Carolina is a vocal coach, Marco is a drum teacher, Alex and I do our things. I work for D’Addario, the guitar string company. On the agenda, we want to be climbing the ladder. The ladder is crazy high, we will take one step at a time. Like a fighter during his fighting career, focusing on training camp and the fight. Learning in the process and adjusting.