When it comes to extreme metal, especially of the blackened death variety, there’s no one that’s been as reliable for 35 years as Dutch outfit God Dethroned. After spending the last 25 years with Metal Blade, their newest album The Judas Paradox sees the group signing with Reigning Phoenix Music. Do not worry though – the record still contains the quality viciousness and angst that has been prevalent in the past – along with the versatility as far as key mid-tempo or epic tracks that allow the album to flow seamlessly.
We got the chance to speak with guitarist Henri Sattler who let us know about the unique development of the material this go around, what it’s like being with the new label and reasons behind this choice, how the band handles creating fresh material this deep into their careers, thoughts on touring and specific special album periods over the years, COVID talk, as well as future plans including a return to North America.
Dead Rhetoric: The Judas Paradox is the latest studio record for God Dethroned. Outside of the latest drummer Frank Schilperoort appearing for the first time on an album for the group, where do you see this record sitting in the discography of the band when it comes to the songwriting, performances, and work ethic put forth?
Henri Sattler: Well, to tell you the truth, this is the first time that we worked (on this album) the way that we did. We wrote, composed, and recorded all the songs without ever having been in the same room. Usually, I would come up with most of the ideas, go to the rehearsal room, rehearse with the drummer, try all kinds of things, work it out and then record. This time, everybody worked at home, came up with ideas, put them together from a distance, and recorded the songs, and now we are learning our own songs in the rehearsal room (laughs). It worked very well. We don’t live that close to each other, so it’s kind of a thing to arrange a meeting together in a rehearsal. We tried it this way and it worked really well.
After the World War I trilogy of albums, I wanted to do something else. With the Illuminati album, we went back to the more occult themes, free masonry, a little bit of conspiracy-like things. We liked that a lot, so we decided to go on that route and make an album that fits the atmosphere that we created on Illuminati. It’s new God Dethroned with the typical elements like the melodies, lots of variation between the songs. We have a few brutal songs, a few more melodic, mid-tempo songs, we have some epic, atmospheric songs. That is basically what you can expect from a band like us. We like to be diverse, and we like to do an album with completely new songs that don’t refer to other songs we did in the past. We always want to come up with something new, and that’s what we did.
Dead Rhetoric: With this type of remote gathering of ideas and recording, were there any songs that took on a great transformation because of that longer period of time working on this material?
Sattler: No. For some kind of reason, the things that everybody wrote were good enough from the start. For example, our bass player Jeroen (Pomper), he comes up with a lot of ideas and he gives them to me, to take whatever I need in whatever circumstances I need them. He’s not bothered by the fact that maybe 50% of his ideas are not used at all, and that the other 50% are used. That’s fine for him. Dave (Meester) our lead guitarist wrote songs on his own, I did as well. On a few occasions I was at Dave’s house and he was working on a few songs, I helped him with the arrangements. I helped him put the right ideas together in the right order. After that process, everything was fine. There was nothing left to be desired. The songs were good, and we were ready to record, so that’s what we did. It worked out fine.
Dead Rhetoric: This is also the band’s first record for Reigning Phoenix Music after spending the last ten records with Metal Blade. How do you feel about your time with that iconic label – and where do you see the major differences in Reigning Phoenix Music so far that hopefully will keep the band a top priority on a global scale?
Sattler: First of all, I look back with a very warm feeling towards Metal Blade for the 25 years that we were on the label. They always treated us as a priority band. They gave us a lot of support. There’s nothing to complain about Metal Blade. This is also not the reason why we went to Reigning Phoenix Music. We did that because it was necessary. We did this because if you stay with the same label or people too long, you become some sort of commodity. Like the chair that is always in your living room – you never sit on it, but it’s there. The same happened to us with Metal Blade, I think. We were the band that came out with a new album, and they put it out. They did their thing; we did our thing. Now being on a new label, it’s all new, new people – and everybody tries to prove themselves. They want to do their best for us because it’s the first release, they want to show us they are a great label that can do the greatest things. And for us it’s the same, we want to prove ourselves to them. Everything is new and fresh.
Sometimes it’s good to have a new beginning. Otherwise, I’m afraid everything may stay the same. When you have the feeling that you are not progressing anymore because everything is staying the same, then it’s good to make a change. Not that we were not satisfied with Metal Blade, but we were longing for a change. Maybe nothing will change at all, and everything will stay the same. Or perhaps with new input, new energy, maybe great things will happen. Who knows? But that was the reason why we changed labels.
Dead Rhetoric: How do you summon up the creative fuel and inspiration to keep delivering solid albums with such intensity this deep into your career? And is it hard to remain original either from a lyrical or musical perspective without repeating yourself?
Sattler: It’s very hard. The older you get, the more albums you do, it gets harder and harder. I know that people recognize God Dethroned by its style, and at the same time we never repeat ourselves. When I write or compose a new song, I’m always trying to find a new type of melody, something I haven’t done before but fits the band perfectly. I can tell you, it’s not easy. I was happy that Dave had a bit more input on the new album. He had written songs that fit God Dethroned really well but were different from what we have done before. And this time, I didn’t have to do this all by myself. Of course, on the old albums I had input from the other guitar player, it’s not that I had to always do everything alone. I did the majority though on my own.
It also becomes difficult with the lyrics. You think okay – I need different topics. But you are limited because they have to fit with the image of the band. I’m not into politics, at least with the band, so we won’t do political statements within our music. It’s all based on fantasy, the dark corner of fiction so to speak. It takes more and more time to come up with something you haven’t done before. Illuminati was released a month before COVID broke out. It put the world on a standstill, and we couldn’t promote the album. We did one European tour before COVID, and after that basically nothing, a show here and there. We were lucky to do a Latin American tour by the end of 2022, that’s it. It was so demotivating to write a new album – we couldn’t reach all the potential promoting the Illuminati album. We play the songs live and the crowd does recognize those songs. It was so frustrating to see an album drown during COVID, and coming up with a new album that’s fresh, original and strong, it takes a lot of energy.
Dead Rhetoric: The video for “Rat Kingdom” has already racked up over 175,000 views on YouTube in the month since its release. Was this an obvious single choice – and how did the video shoot go in your eyes? Any special highlights during the filming?
Sattler: Yes. After you record an album, you are not objective anymore. We’ve worked on the songs for months, took some time, I did the mix myself, so I was also involved in that process. When everything is finished, I don’t know (the album) anymore, I am completely lost. We sent all the songs to the record label, and they said they wanted “Rat Kingdom” as the first single. I asked them why? Because we think it’s the best single, the way the song is building up. We said, okay – fine. It’s about the secrets of the Vatican. We wanted the setting that would refer to the catacombs of the Vatican. We managed to find a location in the Netherlands. It’s a location where they rebuild Roman catacombs. And we got permission to film there. We filmed all the wall paintings and everything that was made like it was from that Roman era. It was perfect. In that sense, it was very special to film that video.
Dead Rhetoric: In a previous interview for our site, you mentioned your love of playing live and enjoyment of festivals / tours. What have been some of the career highlights for God Dethroned in that regard – and do you enjoy the differences between playing smaller clubs/venues versus the larger festival audiences?
Sattler: We have a lot of highlights when it comes to touring. We’ve managed to tour with a lot of the biggest death and black metal bands. We have played the major festivals, and also the smaller ones. The big ones are good for your prestige, it’s good to build up a name, it helps with getting good shows and tours – but the nicest atmospheres to play are at the medium and smaller festivals. It’s just different. The big festivals have so many people, it’s almost unbelievable, to play for so many people is great, but it brings a lot of stress and pressure. When you play a small or medium festival, it’s much more relaxed, you are closer to the audience. I’m not going to say I don’t want to play the big festivals, because I do.
The same goes for club shows, I prefer playing in a smaller venue that’s completely packed than a big venue that’s half full. People have a great time in a small venue when it’s packed, tell other people how great it was. Nobody bothers about how many people that were there. If you play venues that are too big, people spread out, the atmosphere isn’t as great. It all depends on the package nowadays. There are so many tours going on, so many festivals, you have to bring a strong package to have a full house. If you don’t manage that, it’s hard to be really successful. We always aim for a strong package.
Dead Rhetoric: Is it also getting harder to pull out an ideal setlist with so many quality albums to choose from?
Sattler: Yes, it’s very difficult. There is always someone who says, ‘why didn’t you play that song?’. And then you think, we want to – but we can’t play for three hours. It’s intense music, so if you play for an hour to an hour and a half, it’s more than enough. You try to find the best songs. The songs people always want to hear, it’s a part of who we are. We will play four or five songs from the new album, because we want people to get to know those songs. And then after a while, we find out what songs are preferred by the audience as far as the new songs.
Dead Rhetoric: How did you personally manage your time during the layoff because of the pandemic from 2020-2022? Did you develop any new skills, passions, or interests – and do you believe that society / people in general have come away better having lived through this with a greater appreciation for the smaller things in life?
Sattler: What I did, I started mixing. I wanted to mix bands for a long time, mix my own demos and albums. I spent a lot of time trying to master the mixing and mastering process. I became quite good at it – hence the fact that I mixed our latest album. I could only do that because I knew what I was doing. I had to come up with something that could satisfy everybody: the band, the record label, the booking agent. I managed to do that. I learned that during COVID.
If the world came out in a better shape than before, I don’t think so. Many people are completely frustrated because of the COVID years. The big inflation that came after it. Everything became super expensive, and people have a short fuse nowadays, more so than before COVID. I can call myself lucky, we can still get good tours and shows with the band I think because of our good reputation that we have. Maybe in a year or five years, people will calm down again and find their place in society. There are so many problems coming out of this. People having vaccination trouble. I was sick for a year because of the vaccinations. It was only until recently that I’ve found supplements that could help you to get rid of the spike in proteins to move COVID out of your body. I feel a lot better now.
Here in Europe everyone who was very skeptical about the whole vaccination thing, they were put aside as crazy people. They were banned from going to a shop or a theater. But now, I think a lot of people start to realize that the whole thing was an experiment. Nobody knows what the long-term problems will be out of that. I think the COVID years left a big scar on lots of people – that’s my personal opinion about it. I wrote a song about it – “Hubris Anorexia” is basically being locked up and cast aside, and you can only be free if you take an injection. That’s what the song describes, and it’s my own situation. I wasn’t against the vaccination, but if I had known what the risks really were, and if I had known how sick I would be because of it, I would never have done it.
Dead Rhetoric: When you look at the vast discography of God Dethroned, is there a particular album or era of the group that you felt gave you the biggest push in terms of establishing a stronger following – or maybe an underrated record that you wish more people would take a deeper dive into listening to a bit more?
Sattler: The early years on Metal Blade were really good. It was a time when downloading didn’t exist. The Grand Grimoire and Bloody Blasphemy era was really good. It was the end of the 90s, they managed to get us on the biggest tours and the biggest festivals, so we built up a name really fast in a relatively short period of time. Because of all the tours that we kept on doing, we’ve built up a strong name. My personal favorites are The Grand Grimoire album, the Passiondale album, but also the Illuminati album is a strong album. I hope people will discover that album that maybe haven’t because of COVID. Every musician thinks the latest album is their best, especially after they’ve made it. We can tell in a few years from now how we will look back on The Judas Paradox. The most underrated is probably Illuminati because of the circumstances.
Dead Rhetoric: What’s left on the bucket list to accomplish either professionally or personally?
Sattler: We haven’t played Hellfest yet. I would like to play Wacken again, Graspop Meeting in Belgium. We are looking to come back to the US and Canada in early next year. We should have been there last February, but that didn’t happen because the headlining band had some trouble securing visas. That’s why we couldn’t tour there, but we will come back. South America – to do a world tour again. I don’t have a lot of expectations. I’ve learned through 35 years of God Dethroned that it’s best to not have any expectations at all and see what comes. The quality of the album will do a lot, and the booking agent will do the rest.
Dead Rhetoric: How have your views on the world changed now that you are in your early 50’s compared to how you took in the world during say your 20’s and 30’s? Is there anything you wish in retrospect you had taken more seriously back than that you do now?
Sattler: What I do take more seriously now is my freedom. When I say I have no expectations, what I mean is, nowadays I live my life with whatever comes my way is great, and whatever doesn’t is fine. I know my qualities, and I know I don’t have to fight for them anymore. The good things will come by themselves. When I was younger, I didn’t know that. I was fighting and fighting to establish the name of the band, to get respected, to make enough money in between tours. Uncertainty about the future, I let go of all that. Taking myself seriously, that’s the biggest achievement of my life. Now that I’m a little bit older, I see life in a different perspective, and I take it as it comes. It makes life so much less stressful compared to when I was an angry young man. This is a lot better.
Dead Rhetoric: What’s on the agenda for God Dethroned over the next twelve months once the album hits the streets?
Sattler: The album will come out in early September, and then from September 26th we will start the European tour. Probably a US/Canadian tour on the list, Latin America, another European tour and then the festival season. If all goes well, we should go back to the US for a second time after the summer of next year. I know there is interest from Australia and Southeast Asia to play those areas. With a bit of luck, we should see a lot of the whole world starting next year.