Four years removed from their sophomore effort, Unstable, Tetrarch have returned with their latest album, The Ugly Side of Me. Continuing to wave the flag for nu metal while pressing forward with modern trimmings such as augmented heaviness and a flair for incredibly catchy material, Tetrarch have nestled into a sweet spot to call their own. We caught up with guitarist Diamond Rowe and guitarist/vocalist Josh Fore to discuss their latest, as well as their underdog mentality, the positives of being a gateway band, Rowe’s signature Jackson guitar, and their hobbies outside of music.
Dead Rhetoric: It’s been four years since Unstable. What have you been up to in the meantime?
Josh Fore: Unstable was released back in 2021, and we did a lot of touring with that extensively across the US. A lot of really big festivals, and when we were done, we pretty much went straight into writing what would eventually be The Ugly Side of Me. We spent months just in preliminary writing, then we got heavier into it and went into the studio for about 6 months total. Then just all of the planning for the album, so we stayed busy kind of behind the scenes.
Dead Rhetoric: With that in mind, in planning for the album, how do you feel The Ugly Side of Me steps things up for the band? Did you have any concrete plans on what you wanted/didn’t want to do with this record?
Diamond Rowe: I think with Unstable, it was more coming into our own. We were trying things that we really liked. It was like, “I hope everyone else likes this. We love it and we felt it was cool,” so it was kind of like stepping into who Tetrarch is. But I think now we know who Tetrarch is and we have come into our own as a band. People have an idea of the type of music we make. So with this record, we weren’t so nervous, and I wouldn’t say we were trying to find it, but we were setting into new territory to find our sound [with Unstable]. This time, we knew who we are and we knew the basics and the stronger elements of our band, so it was about writing the best songs we could write, knowing who we are and who our fans are…things like that.
Dead Rhetoric: The two of you go back to like middle school, and outside of that, you have had a stable line-up for about a decade now with. Do you view the band as a bit of a family?
Rowe: Yeah, for sure. I have known Josh since we were 11, and it’s kind of like they are my best friends. I’m an introverted extrovert, as they say. I can become extroverted when I need to. But I basically only hang out with them. The band is my life – the band and my guitar is my life. I’m living my dream that I started when I was a kid. Everything I do with that is with them. We are always together, and we include each other in everything. They are definitely like my brothers, I share everything with them. It would be weird to not have them in my life in any capacity.
Dead Rhetoric: I’m sure that makes touring easier.
Rowe: Oh yeah, oh yeah. Especially since we started, and a lot of bands come together just as musicians. Like they meet and come together. We started and went through every stage of being in a band together, from being in a van and sleeping in WalMart parking lots. Sharing McDonalds. We went through all the hard stages together, so now it’s just like 4 best friends having a good time. We aren’t trying to navigate each other’s personalities.
Fore: When you can make it in a van with each other multiple times across the country together, sleeping there and getting through that, it makes being in a bus such a great experience. It’s easy now. Like [Diamond] said, there are some bands that come together just as musicians and you go straight to being in a bus together – you don’t know how to work things out together, you don’t know how to live with each other. But we do, and it’s good to have that closeness.
Dead Rhetoric: How important is the idea of determination and perseverance been to the band in trying to succeed over the years?
Fore: I think that’s the biggest part of our story. We do always persevere. We do keep pushing forward. Anytime we seem what might seem like an obstacle or a step back, we find a way to take five steps forward. It’s really easy for people to quit when things get hard, but it’s not in Tetrarch’s vocabulary. It’s how do we make the best of every situation. I think that also just helps us grow as a band. When you know that you have 4 members that are just going to keep going no matter what. It makes things that much better, because you know you didn’t stop.
Rowe: I know we have always had a theme when we were younger and touring in a van. When we would have no money, run out of gas, or sleep outside, we would always be like, “it’s just a means to an end.” We never let it get us down. It was part of the story. This is what we chose to do, this is part of what we have to do, and it’s a stepping stone. It’s weird. We know a lot of bands that were like, “We quit, this sucks. I’m gonna go get a job, get married, and have kids.” Like doing the normal thing. But we always just knew it was a part of the story, we would get better, and would move up from here. I still think we have some of that underdog mentality, always. We just keep it no matter what. Our producer jokes with us all the time, when he tells us we aren’t the underdogs anymore and he helps us to persevere and do almost anything. We always feel like we have something to prove. To ourselves and other people. We find ways to stay excited. We love what we do. Nothing ever gets us super down. We always just push through.
Dead Rhetoric: I wanted to go back a step to you mentioning that with Unstable, it helped define the band. So what do you think defines Tetrarch as a band?
Fore: I would say what we want to be, first and foremost, we play music we enjoy. We play music that if we were to listen to a band, we would enjoy it. We write what we love. I think to me, Tetrarch’s sound…we are a heavy band, but we try to have big catchy choruses. But also, super heavy parts – we want to be accessible in the way that some of our favorite bands growing up were. People who are skeptical about what metal is, they can listen to us and think it’s kind of cool, and be kind of one of those gateway bands for people. But I would say it’s just heavy music with big catchy elements. That’s our main sound.
Dead Rhetoric: I think it’s kind of important too. A lot of people look at a gateway band, and it’s a gatekeeping mechanism and people are against it, but I think it’s really crucial that there are bands that are willing to embrace that. You reap the benefits too, because you can hear the heavy stuff and the melodic parts – there is something for everyone. If it’s done genuinely, like you are in Tetrarch, I think that’s fantastic.
Rowe: We say a lot that we aren’t embarrassed by that. I know a lot of bands don’t like to be called gateway or crossover bands. But I’ve always looked at is as a compliment, because it’s really cool when you know someone who doesn’t like metal and they are like, “oh, this is metal?” after you show it to them. That’s kind of like what we did as kids. My mom is an avid Gojira fan at this point. It’s one of her favorite bands in the world. But I got her into Gojira by starting her with bands like Disturbed. If I had just taken her to Gojira from the start, she would have been like, “oh that’s too much for me!” I think that’s how a lot of people’s brains work as kids.
We all got into Linkin Park, KoRn, and Slipknot, but I also love Lamb of God, Gojira, and Whitechapel. I love bands that are very heavy, but I couldn’t have gotten there [otherwise]. So I really appreciate bands that will have some of both. It wasn’t like we set out to be a band like that, I mean we play what we love, but we are proud that we are that type of band.
Dead Rhetoric: Based on lyrical content I assume lots of people reach out either in person or through social media. What are some of your favorite stories about how you’ve helped fans?
Fore: That’s one of the coolest parts, hearing from fans and that your music has helped them in any kind of tough situation. We have heard anything from the super sad to even the “I got fired from my dream job today but I got in my truck and threw on Tetrarch and said F that place!” We have gotten all of it. It’s kind of cool just to know that our music does resonate. There’s not one type of person that our music is only for. I feel like even the topics we sing about, they are relatable to everyday people.
Dead Rhetoric: Diamond, what was it like to get a signature guitar? I know that was somewhat recent.
Rowe: It was awesome! When I was a kid and getting into my favorite guitar players, especially when I was in high school/middle school, the biggest guitar players and your favorite guitar players, had signature guitars. Kirk Hammett, Zakk Wylde, Dimebag, all of them had a guitar that you saw and you knew it was theirs. I always thought it would be so sick to one day get a signature guitar. I didn’t know if it would ever happen but it would be really cool if it did. When I got that opportunity, it was super sick. It was stressful and hard to process – the world is your oyster when you are building that guitar, so it’s really exciting but it’s also like, ‘man, I don’t want to mess this up!’
It’s super cool and I feel really honored, especially with a company like Jackson, who have had some of the biggest guitar players that have ever existed. To be a part of the signature club, it’s a real honor to me. Sometimes, I don’t know how it happened, but then other times, I’m like, ‘Hell yeah it happened! We deserve this!’ But it’s super cool and I’m really excited. It’s been cool to see the response to it.
Fore: As her friend, first and foremost, no one deserves a signature as much as Diamond. It was time. I’m so happy about it. It still trips me up. The other day, someone took a picture of their guitar collection, and you see a Diamond Rowe signature sitting there. It’s crazy! We played other signature guitars in Guitar Center all the time growing up. Now people have a Diamond guitar. It’s awesome!
Dead Rhetoric: What are some of your favorite things from nu metal that you have tried to reinvent in your sound?
Rowe: For me, personally, I have always liked how nu metal can sound so dark and ominous. But at the same time, it can be so catchy. The chorus is coming in so big in a song that sounds so dark and droning sometimes. Or it can be so bouncy and people can have a good time with it. It’s crazy, I see Limp Bizkit shows today and the crowds go nuts for that band, even now. I think it’s because there is something to it. Stephen Carpenter from Deftones talked about how people like music they can move to. They don’t have to think about it too much, you want to have fun. The more notes you stick in that thing, the smaller your room is going to be [laughs]. I know some bands would be like, “ok dude, calm down.” But it’s kind of true, people want something that they can catch on to and jump. Something they can bob their head to.
Nu metal bands did a really good job of having that angst and that heaviness, and some of that technicality while still maintaining people being able to wrap their head around it and understand what they are talking about, lyrically. They can understand the groove and move to it, or mosh to it. I think it’s such a good balance of all things heavy and things people like. There are so many aspects to it that are really cool. They are digestible.
Dead Rhetoric: It is funny that you mention the ‘more notes you have, the less people are in the room,’ from my own experience growing up. I was obsessed with tech death metal and the older I get I’m like, “I can’t do this anymore.” Like you said, there has to be a balance and it has to be fun.
Rowe: Like I said, I love that stuff too, but I’m not delusional where I can’t understand why. Like some people get mad and are like, “the general public are stupid. They don’t like Aborted? Like why are Aborted not playing arenas?” Aborted is sick! They are one of the coolest death metal bands but I can understand why Swifties probably wouldn’t be getting into Aborted, you know? I can listen to Limp Bizkit, back then, and your average kid would listen to it and be like, “Hell yeah, this is cool!” It’s rebellious and has that hip hop element to it. I can see the difference.
Dead Rhetoric: Where does your frame of reference come in getting that balance? How do you fine tune and see if something will work for the band considering you do work with some heavy parts and some melodic parts?
Fore: It’s just part of our writing process. We are always down to try an idea, especially in the beginning stages of a song. Sometimes we do something cool that we never would have thought of and it can become part of the Tetrarch sound. Some days we sit down to go write a super riff-y, heavy and fast song, and we never get there and something else happens instead, or vice versa. It could be like making something catchy and then “Negative Noise” comes out. We try not to overthink that part, even though we are overthinkers. I think we just try to serve the song as best we can. If a part needs to be heavy, it needs to be heavy. If it needs to be simple and catchy, then we do that. That helps us get to the sound that we have.
Dead Rhetoric: You constantly portray your passions on social media, but you are also cognisant that it’s the music business. What are some of the ways that you’ve grown the business side of things?
Rowe: I think that any artist or band will tell you, it’s a day by day navigation. I just actually listened to Taylor Swift talk about this, and at one point she said that a lot of people think it’s like we just go out and play shows or write a song, but it’s strategizing all day, every day. It’s talking to your team, it’s pivoting. It’s like trying to turn a no into a yes 18 million times, or saying fuck you and figuring how to do it another way – that’s what it has been for our entire career. It still is, and always will be. We are a super hands on band. We aren’t a band that leaves everything to the devices of our team. I’m sure they get really annoyed by it, but we are hands-on every day. From the creative elements to the planning, to the marketing, to everything.
My dad is in the music industry, and like Josh said, it can take your innocence a bit, but he has taught us from the beginning. It is the music business, don’t get it twisted. You aren’t just playing music. If you think that, you will be swallowed up. As a kid, you are like, “God dammit, I just want to play my guitar [laughs]!” But I’m glad that we had that because we wouldn’t be here without the knowledge that he gave us. It’s a tough business, and I don’t know anyone who said it isn’t [laughs]. But if you have the right people and structure, and goals, you will be okay. But it is a business. There is no book or blueprint. You have to know what you need to and navigate it the best way you can.
Dead Rhetoric: Given where you are right now in the scene, what do you like about the hard rock and metal scene, and what would you like to see more of in the future?
Fore: The genre-bending right now is crazy. Metal isn’t just necessarily one thing, it has elements of everything. It just evolves with the times.
Rowe: I agree, I think it’s ever changing, I think it’s a lot of collaborating, kind of like what they do in other genres. I think metal has started to do that more. Bands doing features and doing things like that, it makes it interesting. I think as far as what I want to see, I don’t really know. Metal is always metal, and people are are always going to have some strong opinions about things. But I think metal is in a good place, I think it’s coming back to the forefront of popular music in some ways. A lot of bands are leading the charge in trying to become more mainstream and to break the narrative that metal is such an underground genre. It’s emerging from the underground, which I think is cool because that’s always been our goal. We never wanted to be an underground band like that, so it’s cool to see that happen and be a part of that wave.
Dead Rhetoric: What are some of your favorite activities outside of music? What do you do for a mental break?
Fore: For me, I really enjoy playing golf, strangely. I grew up around it, and it’s a good way when things are chaotic, just to be outside. You can’t be distracted to play well, so it sort of forces you to calm yourself down and get your steps in and get some sunshine. So that’s my main thing outside of music that is calming to me.
Rowe: I truly wish that I had something that gave me a mental break. The closest thing is fishing. I love to fish. I love bass fishing and I don’t know why. It’s probably the calmest thing I get to do. I just really love it and watching videos about it. I love being in the water, fishing. If I do ever get to take a mental break, it’s probably for that, to go fishing. But it’s real hard for me to turn it off. But fishing is the only other hobby I truly have.
Dead Rhetoric: Well that’s fair enough. I’m noticing you are both into things that require you to be outside, by yourselves.
Fore: It’s funny because neither of us are very outdoorsy. We aren’t going hiking through the woods with a backpack for a week. That’s just not happening. But you can’t be inside all day. Every now and then some fresh air is good.
Dead Rhetoric: What plans do you have once the album is released?
Rowe: Touring. Bands are different. Some like to be in the studio and love writing. They can’t stand touring. We like being in the studio a lot too, but we love being on the road. We love playing shows. We are always looking forward to getting to that part. This summer we are going to Europe for the first time. We are playing some festivals – Resurrection Fest, CopenHell, and doing some dates all over Europe. It’s going to be awesome to finally meet some of our European fans, then hopefully some extensive touring over here. We have something in the works that should be pretty cool. So hopefully a lot of touring and grinding for this cycle.