It’s always exciting to hear a personal favorite band reform after a prolonged absence in the scene. That’s the case here with Utah power/progressive metal band Katagory V. After their last album Resurrect the Insurgence came out digitally in 2015, the band would be no more for years. Thankfully a decade later, the sixth album Awaken a New Age of Chaos comes out through multiple labels (Metallic Blue in the US, High Roller for Europe) – and it’s another dynamic, diverse platter for those who not only love 80s power/progressive metal, but a bit of thrash and traditional nuances as well. We reached out to bassist Dustin Mitchell to catch up on how the band reformed, the multiple songwriting approach that exemplifies the band’s diversity, working with Ed Repka, the deep dives on music including a special look at The Beastie Boys, being a stoic that transforms his life perspective, how his day job influences his music career, and hopes to finally play in Europe.
Dead Rhetoric: Awaken a New Age of Chaos is the 6th Katagory V album – featuring four of the five members from your last lineup, and a decade beyond your last release Resurrect the Insurgence. What happened in that downtime, and how did the band decide to come back together to develop this latest record?
Dustin Mitchell: It was by accident. When I closed shop in 2015, we decided to just put out Resurrect the Insurgence digitally. After that, I just kind of checked out. I was retired, I was done, I had some other bands that would ask me to kind of play on songs with them. Right before COVID, the other guys had a studio project. Matt the drummer, Curtis on guitar, and Dan Coxey who is in the band now. They asked me if I would come and play bass on a song – and I said okay. We all talk still with each other at the local shows and stuff. They figured this song was in more of the Queensrÿche/ Fates Warning style, and they wanted me to try it. I learned the song rather quickly, and they asked if I wanted to try another song, just for fun. I said, yeah – it sounded like Slayer! I learned that one, and they would ask me back to start throwing more songs at me. Eventually they wanted me to play on the whole album. So that’s what started the process…
Around 2012, I was pretty much done with Katagory V. I put all the licensing back under my name, and I was done with this. We decided from there, with all the hard work from the band plus the public outcry from our fans, to put out that last album digitally. From that whole time frame until about 2019, Dustin was just going to work and being a dad, that’s it. I didn’t think I was going to come back into this, at all.
Dead Rhetoric: Did the pieces of the puzzle come together in 2023 to work on this new record?
Mitchell: Timeline – we had about seven songs at the time for this project. Around 2022-23 we had the debut album Present Day re-released on vinyl through Underground Power Records over in Germany. That started generating some interest. Of course, here we are writing songs and it’s all the guys from Katagory V, except one guy Dan. It started that snowball effect. By 2023, that’s when we were like… we didn’t know at first if we wanted to call this Katagory V or not. It’s a little more thrashy, even more than our second album which is pretty thrashy. It also has a lot of the classic, old school metal songs in it. We decided this sounded more like Katagory V in spirit. Every album that we ever did, we liked to bounce between the genres, that’s what we grew up with. It’s a little more in your face, but yes – let’s just roll with that. We didn’t think anyone would care. If we call this Katagory V, is anyone going to really give a crap? (laughs). It seemed to be there was interest, so I’m glad we called this Katagory V, and put it out the way we did. And I think we are going to continue on this way going forward.
Dead Rhetoric: Where do you see this set of material sitting in the catalog of the band – as I feel it’s probably one of your most stylistically diverse offerings to date? Do you believe in this modern age that you can cultivate a broader scope of followers that may have been tougher to accept this versatility in the earlier years of the band?
Mitchell: Yeah. That’s something that we actually talk about quite a bit because the whole vision of the band to begin with was we wanted to be diverse. Be flexible in our sound. There was always going to be this progressive, power metal style but we wanted to play with doom, play with thrash a little bit, maybe death metal. We wanted to have that freedom and that’s what would make us progressive in that sense. This album, definitely it’s like somebody mastered it really strong. They took everything that we’ve done for the last several albums, which was in that wave of one is more melodic, one is more thrashy, this seems to be everything all at once from the 80s – in your face. Metal fans today tend to be more genre specific. Especially modern metal fans – they tend to be very focused on a specific thing, and if you deviate too far from that, you lose their attention.
We went into this knowing that this was going to be the case. We know we are not going to be everyone’s favorite band because we like to jump around a bit. Metal musicians love us, fans who are not musicians don’t get it sometimes. All of a sudden, we thought we were hearing “Reign in Blood” and now we are hearing “Through Different Eyes” from Perfect Symmetry. That’s a little bit too far to go for some of (the fans). The fact this, we enjoy doing that – we get a kick out of it. We are going ride that as hard as we can – and having Albert as our singer, we can expand on that much further. And we are going to keep expanding on that going forward.
Dead Rhetoric: Were there any songs for this set of material that took on a big transformation from the initial demo/ideas to what we hear on the final record?
Mitchell: (laughs). Definitely there were. “Absolution Divide” was very different in the beginning. It became a monster at one point. We actually had it from beginning to end, destroyed it, rebuilt it, moved forward through it. Sometimes when you get caught up in your own writing process, sometimes the quality control can go out the window. You get obsessed with the orchestrations, how many riffs are stacked in there, and you forget that you actually have to have a song in there people can remember. Most of the time, the way we write, some guys will bring ideas to the studio, and we’ll flesh them out there. Some songs I wrote, or Curtis wrote, we will bring in full songs and we will then make adjustments, shift things around. Our drummer believe it or not now writes songs for the band – something he didn’t normally do. He did with this album, and some of the more Bay Area-style riffs – if anyone sees this guy and gives him a guitar, he has a right hand like Jon Schaffer or Greg Fulton of Cyclone Temple, triplet picks. He can actually play faster than our two guitarists. It’s wild.
Dead Rhetoric: What type of lyrical themes did you want to tackle this time?
Mitchell: Most of the lyrical themes on this are fictional. In the past, we usually have more social commentary versus emotional things – themes that people can relate to. We try to write songs that are identifiable. This album, we started writing in fictional senses. We have songs about characters, movie themes – but there are some songs that are throwback to more sentimental values. Relatable topics that anybody can hear the song and take it for what it means, interpret it for what they want. It doesn’t have a story to tell.
Dead Rhetoric: How did famed artist Ed Repka come into the landscape to do the cover for the new album? Where do you place the importance on cover art making the right impression on listeners to provide insight into what people can expect when pressing play on the record?
Mitchell: Ed was brought in by Dan. Dan, his other band called Davidian, they are much heavier, brutal thrash band with some groove elements. They had hired Ed to do one of their albums. When we were talking about artwork, in the past we’ve used Rainer Kalwitz, we’ve used Mattias Noren, and he said, how about because this album is a little more thrashier, we get Ed to do it. We said sure – okay. But it’s not going to be the typical Ed Repka cover, he’s usually got the big eyes, and the skeletal or melting people. This is going to look more science fiction. It’s like a heavy metal comic book – that kind of feel. To segue into your second question, why we wanted to do this is because it’s a thrashier album, Ed is known for that, so we knew we wanted to tie the two aspects into this.
I don’t know how most bands feel about this, but we take artwork very seriously and how it relates to the music on the record. We want to make sure it represents who we are and the music that’s behind it. We try to go through that whole process. Some bands AI things, skim it – or they put a logo, black. You are trying to sell a product – even if someone is not buying the physical product, you have to have a marketing representation to say, this is who we are. When we had Ed develop this, we also threw in some easter eggs from the past albums to represent that we are coming back, that we are the chaos that’s being awakened.
Dead Rhetoric: How did High Roller Records come into the picture for the signing of the record? Do you believe an overseas label better understands what the band is going for?
Mitchell: It’s a very good question. It’s a conversation I have with a lot of people within the band. We got connected with High Roller through Metallic Blue. Metallic Blue is only our label here in North America, and they know we have a much bigger fanbase in Europe. They reached out to High Roller Records because they have worked with them in the past, to do a sub-license. They wanted to take the album. They know who we are over there. We weren’t concerned about them doing the job – we wanted to make sure they liked the album. High Roller is very prolific in what they do. I think they understand what we are trying to get across. Their whole idea of the label is putting out classic 80s metal stuff – every band that is new, they still sound like they are from the 80s, or hard to find stuff that’s been out of print for a very long time. I’m very proud we got on the label, and I’m glad Metallic Blue was able to hook that up. Whatever happens in Europe happens in America concerning how the market goes. If things are positive, it starts trickling back over here.
The important thing is, until now we’ve never really had true availability in Europe. We were on import. It’s amazing that we got through that far, being an import band, in our entire career. Over there people would pay anything like 25 to 30 Euros per album, now they can get it for 12 to 15 Euro, depending on what country they are in. It’s going to be a lot easier for them to have access to it – plus having it on vinyl, that’s popular. Hopefully that will help us grease the wheels and move the band a little bit more forward in our career. That’s why the band crashed the first time – now that we are seeing some resurgence, it’s actually exciting.
Dead Rhetoric: When looking back at the discography and history of Katagory V, what are some of the highlights and standout moments? Also, if you could look back and change one or two aspects that may have turned things around for the group, what would you consider altering?
Mitchell: Highlights were interesting. If you go through the entire past catalog. The first album was simply us trying to figure out what we were. We were two bands combined, basically. That album is so well respected, especially in the Greek and German metal communities, it surprises me because it was done on such a low budget, and it was very hand fisted. But we are very proud of it. The second album – that was a low point for a minute because we were too concentrated on wanting to prove ourselves. It’s a very technical album; it’s a very thin production. It sounds more like Watchtower than strong, US power metal. It had a little more brightness, the bass was a little more forward. When we got into The Rising Anger, we made up for that (album). This one had more of that prog/power mix. The fourth album was great, we were riding high, everything was paying for itself financially. That’s when everything fell apart (laughs). The fifth album, the fact that that album ever even got recorded in a studio was fantastic. It was done on the fly.
If I could go back and change anything through those high and low points – I’d be a little less Hitler-ish (laughs). I was known to be the Dave Mustaine of the band. Around 2016-17, I started to become a practicing Stoic. At that point, I was able to reflect, so when I came back in and we reformed the band, I’m a different person. It’s a lot more relaxed. I was basically whipping these guys (in the past). That’s why it crumbled and fell apart pretty quick. That’s the one thing I would change – we should have taken a break for about a year, get together every couple of weekends and just have some beers. And that would have been the smart way to go, rather than ramrodding our way through it. We paid for Dennis Ward to help build our album; it was a learning experience for sure. I’m never going to do that again.
Dead Rhetoric: You do deep dives into all of your music purchases through your personal Facebook page. What do you enjoy most about this process, and what have been some of your surprises that you’ve been turned onto as of late for bands/albums?
Mitchell: Process, that started with being a Stoic. Trying to eliminate bias, and reflect on things as they sit, as objective reality. Part of that being a Stoic, everything is logical so there isn’t a whole lot of emotion involved with it. Music is your emotional outlet. I decided to be open minded and push myself to experience other things that I normally probably wouldn’t, and get an idea of how I feel about it. Try not to be biased about this. There are always going to be some bands that I’m just never going to get into. It changed my perspective on how close-minded I was for a very long time. I have a collection that’s huge, and it expands. The more open-minded I’ve been, the more music I keep reaching out for. Different genres, and everything. Some people ask if this is going to affect my creativity – will we ever be like a ska thrash band or something? No – I’m a music fan first, then a musician second. I prefer to play progressive power metal – that’s my bread and butter, that’s where I am comfortable. I could travel to thrash, death metal, I can do some doom, stoner rock, but prog/power is where I’m at.
Where do I start with the deeper dives? One of the most mind boggling for me has been The Beastie Boys. I think I mentioned in every review that the young, 15–16-year-old me would be laughing in my face, saying no way! I can finally listen to it and connect with other people. I get it now; I get why you like these guys. It helps me in my day job to communicate with people and find things that I can relate to, it’s expanded things out more. I can start conversations with music and find something relatable – even if we are talking jazz fusion. If we are going to get into country – hmm, I may drown, but I can probably tread water. The deep dives are so much fun – when you do The Beastie Boys deep dive where you had a bias, blocked them out, refused them, ignored them for so much time because they are in your face, they are popular. I know so many metal musicians who absolutely love them, and I was like, why? They just sound like a bunch of kids making silly noises to me. Well, it was rewarding because they are fantastic musicians. The way they coddle together a lot of the fusion, Motown, and jazz from the 70s is insane to me. I’m a big fan of that stuff. I get it, now I get it.
I am into a lot of punk stuff now. I’m going to be trying some Discharge, GBH, and a few other bands like that. The Misfits, that was a band that I ignored, and it’s very rewarding. I’ve become the biggest The Melvins fan recently (laughs). I think they are the Frank Zappa of our time, and I never even realized it. I’m sad because certain albums, if they are out of print, are very expensive. If I see one that’s under $20, I’m usually ecstatic, and I’ll pay for it no problem.
Dead Rhetoric: What are your thoughts on the state of the rock and metal industry, especially with younger or emerging artists, in the current landscape?
Mitchell: It’s hard for me to say as I’m still relearning things myself being so disconnected from it. My idea is now things are about branding and marketing – and that’s probably because that’s what I end up doing for my day job. I think a lot of younger bands get caught up with the internet side of it, and they forget that there has to be an actual person there to have a relationship with. You can tour all you want and ignore the internet; you are going to be in trouble. If you reverse that, it’s still going to be the same. There has to be an equal mix. It’s something I’m still trying to grapple with, it’s still a challenge for us aging metalheads.
I’ve noticed that kids that were born in the early 2000s are trying to play music from the 80s, note for note, in that style. It’s mind blowing to me that they are picking up on it and enjoying it. That has to do with the fact that there’s not a lot of gatekeeping when it comes to streaming. Spotify, Apple, as long as you understand that whatever you record is going through an aggregator that will put that up there for a certain fee, people can access you. That hurdle has created a wash of access for people that will hear things that they never would have heard before due to radio gatekeeping or MTV gatekeeping. It’s something very exciting, as it’s disrupting the market.
On the downside, because there’s zero gatekeeping, there’s so much out there that it causes market fatigue, it causes disinterest. We have a couple of guys in the band who have completely disconnected from anything new over the last decade, because it’s just noise thrown at them and they can’t keep up, it’s too much. And I don’t blame them. We are in a disruptive period that at some point we are going to find equilibrium. It may be like the late 60s, early 70s – every time there’s disruption, it creates innovation, so it’s something I’m excited about, for sure.
Dead Rhetoric: If you had the opportunity to teach a high school or college-level course about any subject matter of your choosing outside of music, what type of course would you develop and why do you think it’s important for these students to learn?
Mitchell: Marketing and sales! (laughs). Because I understand it and I’ve been doing it for years. The only reason why I would say this – I’ll give you a quick 30,000 foot view idea of it. When you are doing marketing and sales, the whole idea of wanting to get somebody to buy from you is first they have to like you. You aren’t going to buy from somebody who’s a jerk, who’s pushy and poking at you to buy something. You have to be their friend. Most people think sales is like going to a used car lot and somebody is harassing you to buy a car. That is a sales job, but it’s not what I do. I do what’s called value selling – you have a product that you are trying to present and have somebody buy. You develop a relationship, and over time you provide examples and training that this is something useful for them. But it has to provide value, that’s the whole point.
If you take all these ideas and put it into the music side, it’s the same concept. If you want people to like what you do, you have to market yourself. Not post stupid things on your band page five times a day and hope people are staying connected with you. A lot of the times people check out your page because you are putting memes up there, not because you are putting up songs. You have to find that happy medium. I would do a sales and marketing class for musicians – even though I’m not actually a professional sales and marking guy. That’s just the bottom line. You have to know who you are talking to. We are on High Roller Records because that is where our market is. It doesn’t do us any good to sit there and play local shows every three weeks and sell CD’s out of the back of a truck, when no one cares. But people in Europe do, and that’s where our market is, that’s where we need to concentrate on.
Dead Rhetoric: What left on the bucket list to accomplish with Katagory V – or any other musical endeavors – that you haven’t achieved as of yet?
Mitchell: Get to Europe! We need to get there and play there. It’s long overdue. It’s surprising to us that with as much attention we have with the underground fan base there, even with festivals that are 400 capacity that are doing US power metal bands, we are shocked that we have never been invited. We got an invitation after I announced that we had broken up. So, it did no good. That’s our focus, we hope to get over there to play for our fans. That’s on the bucket list. I think if we do that, we will feel pretty good. We are not going to stop; we are in the middle of writing the next record. We have a rehearsal setlist we are running through, just to be prepared if someone wants us to get on a plane and play their town. We’ll see what happens.
Dead Rhetoric: What would surprise people to learn about Dustin Mitchell the person when you are away from your musical pursuits?
Mitchell: I don’t know. I think a lot of things probably would (laughs). What I do for a day job is probably mind blowing because it sounds easy when you describe it to someone on paper, but when it’s in application, it’s actually terrifying. I go around selling product, it’s not actually door to door, I have clientele where I talk to about product, about stocking on the shelves. I know what it is – and as long as you understand what you are doing. If you are a metal nerd, you wanted to sell heavy metal bands, that’s how you do it, you just talk to people about how cool it is, and they’ll buy it. I have this beard and ear rings, but I dress up in slacks and a dress shirt and go out there to make contact with people. I love doing it. I am a big gamer – my wife and I play. We are going through Diablo – we are about finished with it after about 165 hours (laughs). I’m a boring guy outside of that. Between Katagory V and my day job, my daughter has grown up and graduated, so I’m in that semi-retirement phase of life now. That’s why I think Katagory V is in a good spot, most of the guys are. Once the kids grow up and they are on their own, you are settled into your jobs, you have a little more freedom and more time to do this.
Dead Rhetoric: How do you see the next year or two shaping up for Katagory V? Will there be any plans for shows, even if it’s on a limited basis – and have plans already been in the works for a 7th studio album?
Mitchell: We don’t ever really know where any album is going to go until we are five or six songs into the writing, to see where things are going to sit. We have two songs, one of them is a thrasher- Anthrax/Exodus style. The second song is more progressive in that Lethal, Fates Warning style (laughs). It may be louder and softer. I have a couple of songs in the bag, Curtis just brought a song to the table that has a groove metal feel to it. Even though I am telling you these things, by the end they may not even make the album, washed down the drain. The work in progress – we record as we are writing now, because technology allows us to do this much more efficiently. Now we can shape the songs and get the ideas down, finalize them and call it done, go onto another one. Having our singer Albert in Chicago, he will send us stem tracks and then we fly him into Utah to do studio sessions. I believe we should by the end of year two, hopefully have another album ready to go. Show offers or festival offers may slow us down. If we go at the pace we are going, we’ll have another album ready in the pocket about 18 months to two years. And we hope between that and playing some live shows, that’s enough to plan for.